The space between.

A wonderful kind of wisdom comes from those who understand that performance emerges not from exerting control, but from creating the conditions for performance to flourish.

As I speak with our next guest on ‘In the Arena’, Shane McCurry, this thought comes to mind, and I am then reminded of the legendary music producer Rick Rubin.

The connection is much more than their ability to grow a fine beard, but their capacity to help artists/bands and athletes/teams find their truest voice.

As Cody Royle captures in his book 'A Second Set of Eyes', Rubin's impact comes through his presence and adaptability: "Sometimes I'll just be a sounding board: 'Which of these lyrics do you like better?' Sometimes, I'll share how I feel: 'This is great; it already sounds done.' Sometimes, I'll be a truth-teller: 'I don't know if the content is strong enough yet.' And, sometimes, I'll be a partner: 'Let's figure it out together'.”

Like Rick Rubin, Shane McCurry's gift lies in knowing what each moment needs to help others flourish, building an environment that draws on the collective imaginations of those in the room.

His journey from Rochester, a tiny dairy farming community of 3,000 people, to being at the heart of teams such as the Richmond Football Club, Melbourne Vixens and Melbourne Storm, tells us something profound about leadership. It's not about having all the answers, but about creating the conditions where answers can emerge.

"It wasn't so much the notion of the sport itself," Shane reflects, "it was that concept of people coming together to achieve something, to work hard, the spirit, the camaraderie, the ability to get things out of one another, the highs, the lows, the ups, the downs..."

Just as Rick Rubin helps artists find their authentic voice, Shane creates environments where people can discover their best selves. "Wellbeing for me is less about are you seeing the club psychologist or not," he explains. "It's a bit more about do we have an environment that is set up for people to come together to make the best use of their gifts or strengths and to feel like they're valued and that they belong."

Both men understand the power of questions over answers. Where Rubin might ask an artist about their true intention for a song, Shane gently probes leaders: "What's a conversation you're not currently having that you could be or should be?" It's an invitation to reflect, dig deeper, and find what's real and true, at least for them.

“Sometimes we try to get to the self-actualisation part up the top of the pyramid before we first look at those bottom layers around trust and love and value in the person for who they are and the role that they can play in helping us get to where we want to get to”, says Shane.

This understanding of human connection proved vital at Richmond, contributing to the club's remarkable transformation that led to premierships in 2017, 2019, and 2020. After 37 years without a flag, the Tigers didn't just win - they created a culture where people could truly belong and excel.

Shane’s impact isn't about imposing a formula, but about creating space - space for growth, for authenticity, for excellence. In a world focused on quick fixes and immediate results, his wisdom lies in understanding that true excellence emerges through patient, purposeful cultivation of environments where people feel safe to be their best.

Drawing from Dr. Pippa Grange's insights, Shane speaks of the difference between an "ego system" and an "ecosystem." In an ecosystem, egos exist but don't dominate. "It's that notion of 'we' and 'us' rather than 'me' and 'I'," he explains, understanding that the best outcomes emerge when people feel safe to contribute their true selves.

Shane's appreciation for the role of imperfection and courage in growth runs deep. He finds wisdom in unexpected places, including Nick Cave's reflection on his 2003 album Nocturama. Where critics saw failure, Cave embraced his "sad, brave, little record," understanding that "failure fortifies us. It moves us forward. It strips everything back to its essential nature and leaves us clean and pure, ready to begin again."

Shane loves this perspective: "After everything he's achieved in his career, that's what they want to focus on. But he loves the fact that it was such a mistake, because it was necessary. It was crucial to finding what would be next for him."

This insight, that growth often requires courage to fail and learn, found resonance in Richmond’s efforts to back up their drought-breaking 2017 Premiership, which included a loss to fierce rivals Collingwood in the 2018 Preliminary Final before winning again in 2019.

His understanding of performance and wellbeing reflects this wisdom: "It's not one or the other, it's one through the other," he observes, emphasising that sustainable excellence can only come through nurturing the human spirit. The Tigers' success demonstrated this perfectly - excellence achieved not at the cost of humanity, but through embracing it.

Richmond's Dylan Grimes captures an essential element of Shane's philosophy: "Don't try to be someone else and don't wait for someone else." It's about creating spaces where people can be authentically themselves while contributing to something larger.

"The best teams are the most diverse teams," Shane notes, while acknowledging that such diversity requires patience and understanding as people learn to work together. His gentle questioning - "What's a conversation you're not currently having that you could be or should be?" - helps leaders reflect on their impact and opportunities for growth.

In a world often focused on quick fixes and immediate results, Shane's serenity comes from understanding that true success - whether it's premiership flags or personal growth - comes through patient, purposeful cultivation of environments where people feel valued and capable of their best work.

His legacy isn't just in the silverware at Richmond, Vixens or Storm, but in the many lives he's touched through his quiet, steadfast and compelling commitment to creating spaces where others can shine.

Notebook ready.

Play on!

Cam